Investments are not FDIC-insured, nor are they deposits of or guaranteed by a bank or any other entity, so they may lose value.
Intro: Hello, and welcome to the PracticeLab Podcast, where we talk to top advisors about the traits that make them successful, so you can apply those in your own business. I’m Melissa Phipps.
Today on our podcast, we have Max McQuiston, a practice management consultant at Capital Group, talking with advisors Bart Zandbergen and Letitia Berbaum (who goes by Tish). They’re from The Zandbergen Group Wealth Management in Laguna Beach, California, a DBA* of the registered investment advisor firm Access Wealth Management. And the way these two work together in partnership is really unique.
They have received top advisor accolades, from Forbes and other publications over the past 10-plus years. And they get top marks in client surveys as well. There are a few reasons for that, including client experience, service that goes the extra mile and a distinctly beautiful brand, which we are going to find out about in today’s episode.
From the ocean-view office, to the wine events, to the website that looks like a magazine, it feels like a luxury experience. But it hasn’t always been that way. In this episode, Max talks to them a bit about how they got started, building their team as well as their brand, and the relationships that help their business stand out. So with that, let’s join the conversation.
Max McQuiston: Bart and Tish, welcome to the PracticeLab.
Bart Zandbergen: Thanks for having us, Max.
Letitia Berbaum: Yeah, thanks, Max.
MM: So I'm excited for all of you that are listening today for the chance to hear from two great practitioners. What I want to do is start a little bit, just kind of out of the gate. Tell me a little bit about your background. Why did you get into the business? What do you love about what you do? And Bart, maybe let me start with you, if that's okay.
BZ: I got out of college, and I was ready to go, ready to hit the road like many people are. And I chose the career as a computer programmer. That's what they called it back then, it wasn't IT, that wasn't a word yet. And a couple of years as a computer programmer and realized quickly that this was not the career for me. It was a little bit too antisocial for my personality. So I thought maybe the next big move, or the best step would be to get into a sales or a sales support position, still in the computer world, which is what I did. As it turns out, I wasn't too bad at it. So I became somewhat successful in what I was doing. And you know, for the next couple of years, had a child, bought a house. And because of this, this success, if you will, I engaged a financial advisor. And around my 30th birthday, I remember waking up and thinking, you know, this isn't going to work. I'm financially successful, but I — and I don't want to sound corny — but I realized I wasn't changing lives. I wanted to do something where I had more of an impact on society and on people's lives. And I had this conversation with my advisor at the time. And he looked at me, he listened, he was an excellent listener. And he looked at me and said, “You know, what you're describing is pretty much what we do in this industry.”
So I took that, and for the next six or nine months, thought about it and thought about it. And then I remember as clear as day, two o'clock in the morning, I remember sitting up one morning and thinking, “This is it. This is what I'm going to do.” So, you know, the somewhat irony of it is I've walked away from… well it for a while I did the day job, and at night, I did licensing. And, you know, this was quite some time ago, so there were seminars and phone calling and setting appointments. So I would do that at night while I was getting educated and licensed, and then walked away from a great job and benefits to do what most of us advisors do is to become virtually somewhat unemployed for the first few years as you're gathering clients and trying to build an income. And I will say that it wasn't easy. But if I wouldn't change a thing, I wouldn't change a thing.
MM: I love it from a computer programmer, to I decided I want to change people's lives and waking up at 2 a.m. And remembering specifically that that example I think is great kind of talks a little bit why you're passionate about what you do and why I think you do such a great job for clients. Yeah. Tish, how about you?
LB: I think that, you know, Bart and I have a fantastic partnership because we complement each other. But we're also so different, from different backgrounds. My career or path becoming a financial advisor, really, the spark began when I was in grade school. And the wildest thing is, like, that's where my children are today, age-wise. It's hard for me to even fathom my children doing what I wanted to do back then.
My mom was an entrepreneur. And my father worked for corporate America, and he would go to the bank and go to and make deposits all the time. And I would see other people making these deposits, and I wanted to know what they were doing with these suits in the back, and where were they were going? I was intrigued by this experience. And through that journey, I found a love for investing. I started to track my investments and follow my investments. I begged my mom to open my first investment account, this was in the 90s, and I did quite well. And I fell in love with it.
I started to kind of watch the trends of investing. I started to realize how amazing could it be to create wealth and have tools to help us become wealthy, so I didn't have to always work for my money, I could actually have my wealth grow for me. So from that standpoint, I went this entrepreneurial kind of mindset behind me, as my mom kind of led the path in that I went down this path of knowing, OK, I want to become a financial advisor. I want to be able to figure out, when I was younger, I wanted to be a stockbroker, that was the original dream. And for me, I wanted to create a career that never felt like a job. I didn't want to sign up for a job. I wanted to do something that I absolutely had tremendous passion for, and I can help other people become also financially successful and help them with tools in their lives. For me, it was this passion that drove me to say: If I was going to work an endless amount of hours each day, what is it that I'm going to love just waking up and doing every day? Changing people's lives and helping them create their successes.
I love the idea of partnering with people like Bart. That has given me the ability, as being a woman in this industry, to still have a family, to still have work-life balance. To still be able to contribute to society, but then never let go of my dreams. And that was kind of like my own personal journey. But that was something that was super important to me along the way.
MM: I love it. Both of you mentioned changing people's lives and, I think at the end of the day, that drives someone to do what's in the best interests of their clients, each and every time. One of those hallmarks, I think, of a great practice is doing what's in your client's best interest and the satisfaction you get as you do that. Let me ask you a little about your team. You know, Bart, you started the practice, started from scratch. And as anybody knows, you know, for an entrepreneur, you start a business, it takes time to learn how to build a very successful team and practice, the Zandbergen Group. Tell me a little about the team and how it's constructed. There was a lot of thought that went into that, how your team was structured.
BZ: Yeah, the structure is, in part, there were depths that came into play. When Tish and I decided, you know, three and a half, four years ago that we were going to lift, and what were we going to do? And so we spent about 9-10 months, we called it speed dating. So we looked at, you name it, we talked to them from, from pure banks, to hybrids to RIAs [registered investment advisors], and we had a serious conversation about forming our own RIA. But at the end, we decided that what we were being offered from Axxcess was exactly what we were looking for. And Tish has this great, this great phrase: cake, frosting and sprinkles. Everyone wants a cake, right? Most people at least got to have frosting on their cake. If you can get the sprinkles, you've got the whole thing. So that's what we found with Axxcess.
And so, we decided the timing was not right to form our own RIA. So we're IARs [investment advisory representatives], and why I tell that whole story is that our team and our office consists of Tish and I as client acquisition, client service. And then we have an ops person who takes care of all money movement, anything to do with our custodian. And then we have a concierge, front desk, scheduler, etc. Tish now has an assistant, and we've got another two advisors. But from the team standpoint, that's our primary team. And then the mid-office and back-office is taken care of for us with our oversight at the RIA. So reporting, compliance, trading, we have an investment committee that's part Tish and I, part our CFA and team over at Axxcess.
MM: Terrific. I'm going to come back to roles and responsibilities in a little bit, because I know you've got that pretty well defined. But before I do that, when I think of your team, as a group, just the brand that you've built (and I know there's been an evolution of that), I think it's one of the things that's most distinctive to me about who you are and who you serve. So maybe just walk me through a little bit, both of you talk a little bit about that branding evolution and who it is, what you've created, what you want to represent it, and then who are the clients that you feel like you serve best?
BZ: So yeah, you're right, evolution is probably the best word to describe how our brand has changed or evolved over time. And I don't have any professional marketing education, a little bit in business school, but I don't consider myself a branding and marketing person. But I think, at the end, if you're honest and you're transparent, and you really strive to show that, and I think that's where our strengths are, both Tish and I.
We designed an office that is open and flows, and really shows our love of the ocean and the coast, and we tried to display that. And one of my side things, as you know Max, is a love for wine and fine food. And so we've displayed that in the office. We've made it really comfortable, we want it to be intentionally different from a typical financial adviser office. As you know, Max, when you come in, we have a lounge area that's open and comfortable, with a kind of a kitchen-esque look. And that was really important.
And then, continuing that path is, “OK, how are we going to translate that onto the website?” So that was a lot of effort. We laugh because as much as I don't have professional branding or marketing training, neither does my wife, but she decided to kind of take the horns on that. And she knows nothing about designing websites, and she didn't really design the website, but the poor web designer became my best friend after about two months, either best friend or he was probably over it.
Anyway, she controlled it from start to finish. She had, you know, she brought in wardrobe, set design. She was the art director, worked with a photographer, she was on a mission. But what she really wanted to do was to support Tish and I and the team. And she wanted to make sure that our presence in our personal brand was well displayed. And I think we accomplished it at the end.
MM: And not only do I think you've accomplished it. But if you look at your website and you compare it to what's on LinkedIn, for example, you see a very similar framework, right? Who it is, why I love what I do, who I serve, and how we help them. So there's alignment, right? All through that. Tish, what would you add to that, any thing you'd add, as you think about branding?
LB: Max, I think what you shared is important. All of our messaging and all of our imagery is consistent amongst everything. So all of our social media platforms have the same look and feel, our website has the same look and feel, and even our presentations have the same look and feel. Client reports, the same look and feel. We really want people to feel like when they come to see us, they're really just taken care of with this elegance and this grace. It's not over the top, but it's just really well put together and a lot of attention to detail.
It really, truly is… it's the little details that make a difference on the day to day, where they just know, like, if we're putting the time and effort into these details, then we are absolutely putting in the time and effort into their portfolios and their investments and their lives and their legacy. So it's bridging that gap.
But I think it’s understanding that putting yourself out there, to invest in marketing, to be able to have a true reflection of yourself, you can have pieces. Bart and I, sometimes we’ll have elements that are different, or we’ll lean in on certain topics that are different when maybe we're talking about content and relatability and connection, because that makes us unique. And it helps us connect with the clients that might have a relationship or connection. But at the end of the day, it's all united. And I feel like that's something that's super important, that people see that same consistency on everything. I mean, including the gifts that we send to clients. Sometimes it's about the clients, about what they're getting. But then potentially, it might have like a really beautiful logo on the bottom or it's just subtle that that way that like it's slight messaging, but it's really truly like it's about them. And they're really taking care of us, that underlying messaging across the board.
MM: And to me what sticks out is: You see your website, you see LinkedIn, and then you go into the office, and it just carries forward, right? It's not like a contrast, is just similar framework, and it has a calming presence as you walk in. Tell me a little about…what are the types of clients you guys serve best? Or who is your ideal client?
BZ: So again, a lot of things just evolve, right? I didn't start my career with the thought that I'm only going to work with high net worth and ultra high net worth clients. I started my career probably like most people did, back then, I had clients that were saving $50 a month in American Funds, that’s their investments. You know, time grows, and my clients grew as well. My clients, a subset of them became more and more successful, and to a point where their $50 a month became, you know, multimillions of dollars from other events. We have had clients that have sold companies, that's probably where a majority of the money that we manage comes from. There's been some other liquidity events as well some inheritance. But at the end, we are now primarily a high net worth and ultra high net worth practice.
LB: Yeah, adding my own flavor to that. I feel sometimes I really resonate with women CEOs, women executives, entrepreneurs. And a lot of like what Bart shared, as a lot of companies are getting ready to exit or sell their company, we really are able to, with our tools, help people with complicated situations and simplify them and give them tools to help them through that process.
And really, truly, no matter what stage you are in life, our goal is to really help families through that timeline and get them through that journey, like Bart shared. And a lot of times when you're dealing with maybe, like, ultra high net worth individuals or high net worth individuals, maybe their number-one goal could potentially be everyone has different goals, but it could be not just hey, can I retire? But how do we create a legacy? How do we pass this along to the next generation, and bridging those gaps. So we bring some really special, unique things that we've been able to do over the years, like family meetings, things like this, that really helped bridge those gaps and help multiple generations really solve their family needs.
MM: I love that. I think that tees up a really good topic for me, as you think about the other clients that you serve. And Bart, I think that the evolution of what you started to get to where you are now, it's doesn't mean you can't serve everybody, but you only have a certain amount of time to serve. And so, the people that have the problems and challenges that we're just uniquely able to serve in an efficient and effective way.
You know, if I look on your website, it mentions some of the topics like wealth management, family office, true wealth, estate and legacy planning, tax planning, retirement planning, divorce planning, and even insurance planning. So a lot of topics you cover, but one in there was unique to me, that I don't see very often on a website, and that's true wealth. Would you mind unpacking that? What is true wealth?
BZ: So, you know, much like the aha moment I had, you know, when I got into the business, about 10 years into the business, I had another aha moment. And that was, you know, what is wealth? Right? To define that. To give credit where credit is due, it was a coaching program that kind of helped bring it to light that I was involved with about 20 years ago. And the takeaway concept was “true wealth.” We kind of adapted that to ourselves, our own. And we have eight pillars. I mean, it would probably take an hour if we dove into each one of them, but we'll definitely cover at high level. But at the end, money isn't the eight of the pillars. And example like we have health is the ultimate wealth, family and friends, legacy, faith. That's a sample.
And you know, we spend a lot of time on how Tish and I are both kind of fitness nutcases. But you know, it's really important. Over my life, and over my career, I've seen people that have worked so hard to become wealthy, you know, “wealthy” financially, and what have they done, they have forgotten some of these people, many have forgotten their health, at the expense of getting wealthy. And I'll tell you something, you can't buy, you can't buy health, you can't buy fitness, you can't buy, you know, mobility, you can buy, you can pay for a trainer, you can pay for a food program, but you've got to do the work. And so we, you know, we spend a lot of time with clients, because we're kind of soul-searching, and in fact gathering, really covering what's important to clients. And we try to instill and create a true wealth balance in them as we go through the process.
MM: I love that you describe, help them look at what their goals are, help them prioritize, but maybe bringing goals into the picture that maybe weren't on the forefront of their mind, maybe, but as you talk about it starts to resonate, right? It's not just your wealth, but your health as well. And I wouldn't use the term nutcase. I might exchange that for aficionado. I think you’re health aficionados and, you know, being fit, trying to live your best lives, you know, I know matters to you. And it doesn't mean all clients need to do that or want to do that, but helping them understand what is important and helping prioritize those goals, to me, one of the greatest services that an advisor offers is helping to prioritize your goals, helping understand and prioritize and then create a plan.
What else would you say makes you distinct or maybe is part of what you do exceptionally well in the marketplace?
BZ: In our business, and not just our industry, but in our industry, specifically, relationship is probably more important than anything. Look, every financial advisor, or most financial advisors, manage money. Some do a little better than others. We think we do it really, really well. But at the end, you know, planning I think, is really important. But the relationship…
We did a survey, it's been about 10 years now. And I will tell you, I was very, very nervous. I had a lot of anxiety, because we sent out to our top 30 clients, you know, a handful of questions. Why do you work with Bart and Tish? What are some of their strong points? What are weak points? And I was dreading getting the response. Because, I don't know, I felt super vulnerable.
We got all of them back. And they were all amazing, you know, they were all very complimentary. What really rose to the top was that our ability to actually sit and listen, and understand. And I think it's kind of an old saying: We have two ears and one mouth, right? So we should listen more than we talk.
Even in our intake meetings, you know, at the end, we don't say very much. We throw out questions and we listen, and then throw out questions. And you listen. And, you know, I think at the end, people walk away, like, “Those guys were really great! And matter of fact, he didn't say too much, but they're really great.”
But we take that information. And it proves we listen, because when we come back, and Tish is the master of running our financial planning software and the planning department, we address what's important to them. And we're constantly following up. I personally, I've been older than I should have been in the business longer. I've had clients for over 30 years, we now go to clients’ social events: birthday parties, and kids’ weddings and birthdays. We now have one of our oldest client’s son that's just started working for us. I think that says a lot.
MM: Agree. 100%. I think you mentioned that term that I think is so important, is willing to be vulnerable, right? Sending out a survey, ask, “Hey, why did you choose to work with us? What do you like most about working with us?” To me, that's one of those best practices, that advisors who ask for feedback get it and then implement it. You know, clients will tell us a lot of things if we just asked, but sometimes when you were like you said, Bart, you didn't know what the answer was going to be. Sometimes that can be a little nerve-wracking. But super powerful, right?
Do you do any kind of ongoing client surveys? Like how do you get, you know, more client feedback in today's environment? Do you still do some of that?
BZ: Yeah, so we just in the last couple of months talked about, we're kind of creating the round two or three of this. So we are in the process of implementing a more structured process of getting that feedback.
MM: I love it.
LB: We also do, as part of our normal like onboarding process, we do a very limited questionnaire. But it's more about preferences and likes and dislikes and how we can help serve them better, not necessarily like what Bart was saying. I think that's the next phase of, like, how it's more feedback on their experience. But we do have some things that we're sharing now.
MM: Perfect.
Melissa Phipps: That’s it for this episode of the PracticeLab podcast. We will continue our conversation in episode two, where Bart and Tish describe their financial planning process and how they have family wealth meetings. Thanks again to Max McQuiston and to Tyler Furek, the Capital Group wealth management consultant who works with Bart and Tish.
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PracticeLab is brought to you by Capital Group. You can find all these episodes and more at practicelab.com.
I hope you found this helpful, and I look forward to joining you on the next episode of the PracticeLab podcast.
*DBA stands for does business as under a different firm name.
Investments are not FDIC-insured, nor are they deposits of or guaranteed by a bank or any other entity, so they may lose value.
